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Ron

I don’t think anybody would like that if I’m like hey we had to let go of Madison because she likes cats over dogs, and we are a dog company, so she had to go.

(Intro music)

Ron

Welcome to the Geek Freaks Podcast, episode number one “Should Employee Social Media Be Monitored?” Our guests today are Monica Gordon and Madison Bronkan.

Monica

Hello

Madison

Hello

Ron

Hi. So, the big question I mean the title of the podcast is the question. Should we monitor, should the employee, or employer monitor the employee’s social media and what are the implications of that? What does that look like I guess?

Monica

So, being an employee, I don’t think that employee social media should be monitored just because the employee should have their freedom of expression on social media and I don’t think it should be a reflection of the company.

Ron

So, if I have an employee that’s just wearing my logo brandishing weapons on the internet, I mean it’s a bad look. But, it’s not necessarily me and him brandishing weapons or Bill for that matter, so I don’t know. I don’t really give a hoot either way, I can’t control you nor do I want to, but I know there is an HR aspect to it.

Madison

Yeah, coming from HR I feel like there is a balance. So, I actually look at every potential candidates’ social media from LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, I google your name. It’s the whole gamut there. After you’re hired, I think it just comes down to trusting your employees and doing the right thing because you can have just a precedence set for what you can or can’t put on social media or should or shouldn’t put on social media. And I trust that people follow that. If I am friends with someone from work on social media and I see that they are just dragging our name through the mud or something like that then that would be a completely separate issue and probably the wrong employee for the company.

Ron

So, man robs Burger King wearing an Omega shirt, issue?

Madison

Yeah, yeah that would be an issue. But that would be an employee we don’t want working here because we don’t want anyone who is going to rob a store.

Monica

Right.

Ron

Bad PR is good PR you know what I’m saying.

Madison

No.

Ron

Oh, okay. So, I know from my standpoint it is becoming easier to do. Like I can monitor how long people are in applications now, that we use business wise. I know that Microsoft is releasing a dashboard so we can see how often the tools are utilized and for how long. To me, it’s all just noise and oversight, big brother style but I know that there are some customers that even some potential customers that like the aspect of that, but that was never anything I cared about because if you trust your employees are going to use their email, because really that is what people want to know, how long has Bob been in his mail and how many emails has Bob sent.

Madison

Yeah, which is what Microsoft is going to allow now with their new dashboard.

Ron

Which is crazy and stupid to be honest with you. I get it if you want to see it from like hey, we are rolling into, for instance I can see how often we interact with I.T. Glue, it’s based on points, you get points based on if the guys update documents. It’s more of a gamification versus a monitoring tool, but I can still see who’s in it and doing what in it. Even that is weird to me. I like to use it as a gamification situation, but I don’t know. I think it’s just not everyone is going to use tools the same way.

Madison

I can see form a business owners’ side of things or someone who is really into analytics, just monitoring, not so much monitoring, but making sur everyone is using their time efficiently and effectively. But, at what cost? Because I feel like employee engagement is going to plummet. It’s not going to be a good thing. People are not going to enjoy being monitored.

Monica

Yeah, I feel like there would be less trust between the employee and the employer if everything there doing is being monitored and if say they look at Facebook while they are at work I feel like if they are being monitored and get I trouble for using that, it’s wrong because people do need breaks while they are working, so like I don’t know I feel like it’s okay. But it obviously comes to a point where if you are spending your whole day on social media and not doing your work then yeah that’s wrong. But I don’t know I just wouldn’t want everything I’m doing being monitored. I would just feel invaded I don’t know.

Ron

So, it’s just, with the industry we are in and the technology we have, I can see what everybody spends on like Facebook, right. So, our customers always want reports on that. How long did so and so spend on that. It’s an exorbitant amount of time. It’s crazy, the last report I ran one individual was on Facebook for 200-something minutes. That’s a long time to be on Facebook on your work computer during working hours. So, there is always this give and take, but again I don’t think that is my or as a technology provider that is not my job to police that. I can provide you with the information, but it’s not my job to say you can and cannot do anything. Like work phones, we were just recently asked to monitor people’s activity on their work phones. We said no, it’s just not who we are and what we stand for, but it’s very possible. You spend $5 a phone with Verizon, and it will tell you everything installed on the phone, bah blah blah, all this garbage, but there’s a possibility of it. I know if you work for one of the bigs so Microsoft, Facebook, or Google, they monitor everything you do on your phone anyway to protect their data. That to me would be even crazier, not form a social media aspect but more to a life aspect. You know we don’t all make the best decisions in our life whether it’s on Facebook, Insta, Snapchat, whatever it’s called Instagram. We post, well I don’t have it, but you guys post things, you’re out having a drink with your friend. Like that doesn’t both me but may bother some.

Monica

Yeah.

Madison

Yeah, I think, so just last week I tried to friend Monica on Snapchat and which is an interesting dynamic because of course I am HR, like I get it, I get why people wouldn’t want to be friends with me on social media, but I think Snapchat is a little more interesting because people are constantly doing Snapchat stories or even Instagram stories. Whereas people have been taught growing up in this era to monitor or just to be cautious of what they post or to be cautious of what they post on Facebook or LinkedIn. Snapchat is just kind of a free for all.

Monica

Yeah haha. Yeah, I would agree with that, like what Snapchat stories just stay for 24 hours. I guess you can save things now, but yeah if I go out, I don’t know…

Madison

Yeah, just the things, not you personally, but like people put on their stories they don’t really think that much about in the moment and then it is quote on quote gone, which it probably never is.

Ron

Well I think it is a generational thing. So, I own a business, you can find me wearing t-shirts, and polos, and jeans, you get what I’m saying like old business and new business doesn’t play well anymore. Like I get looked at differently, when I did that meeting in a short-sleeve shirt the guy was staring at my tattoos the whole time. It’s just different, everything is different. They are not filtering out what they are putting to the universe because it has never been a thing where before me and my generation, if I am applying for a job my Facebook has nothing on it if I had it, when I had it. Nothing. You’ve shown me things of people like here’s a candidate, here’s their application and I was like oh that’s great, and then you get them in here and this has nothing to do with social media, but you get them in here and they are a different person because they are a different person than ho they are when they interview. Everybody is different than work in some form or fashion and you shouldn’t have to hide that. Because professional is professional and it’s hard to juggle both. Like, I can’t cover up my arms all the time and not swear as much as I shouldn’t. I don’t know it’s weird, it’s wild to me to think this generation of people coming up everything is out on front street and you have to respect that on some levels but people are like I hate this place and blah blah blah why didn’t I get a job there. We’ve seen it where people have spoken to me and been like yeah I want to work here, it’s a casual conversation and then I find out from mutual friends that oh you hired so and so and I’m like no they don’t work here, but they put it on whatever they put it on that they are working for ya and I’m just like no, nope just had a conversation with them. It’s just weird.

Madison

I mean it’s more like fact checking that I do on social media than judging someone’s character because I think with the hiring process especially, I try to be as unbiased as possible which is why I keep a lot of different people in the hiring process. So, any assessments I send to various departments here that relate to that candidate and without their name or resume on it, it’s just straight up questions and answers, are these correct, can this person do the job? Which kind of bothers some people, specifically our project managers and project leads because they hate it, they want to see their name, their background, see who is this person and I mean I get it.

Ron

It’s comfortable.

Madison

But I want them to tell me are these answers correct. And I get it, it drives them nuts.

Ron

So, do you think it’s a possibility in the climate of all this cause everybody, cause the bigs are all pushing for these dashboards and reports. I mean it’s happened in small fractures, like I could get daily reports from Asana of what you guys have done in the system, I never read them I delete them, but again it has nothing to do with social media, it’s just more monitoring and essentially oversight. Do you think there will ever be a balance or are we just all going to be under the thumb, I’m going to get all these reports and know everything you’re doing and it’s gonna be hell on Earth? Is there a middle ground? Cause it’s either you’re monitoring someone or you’re not and there’s this trust or you’re saying hey Monica I saw you with an Oberon on Tuesday night and you’re hungover at work, what’s up?

Monica

Well, Madison and I were just reading an article earlier and it’s not really social media, but you could put sensors in employees’ chairs to monitor their sitting versus standing activity um like all the other…

Madison

Yeah it was crazy. Walmart has one where they could hear the cashiers, the bags rustling, the conversations they were having with customers in front of them.

Ron

But I feel like that is a trade-off of employment. So, like this is where I am going to get crazy and weird on you guys, but I feel like that is tradeoff of employment because what they are trying to do is better the experience for the customer and control what is being said or told, so that’s where I am like that is very very cool to do. Like how many times have we had shitty customer service experiences, like we can go back to Tom at the front door. I get it from that aspect, that doesn’t scare me. But, if there is a pressure pad under my ass and I stand up to go to the bathroom and it’s not break time, could I get in trouble? Now do they disclose this information to these people?

Monica

I would hope so.

Madison

Again yeah, I think there is going to be a lot more legality issues or conversation brought up in the coming years that is brought up that is going to be legal or not legal. In the consumer world they are bringing to light a lot of different things, but businesses have been wondering if those are applicable to employees, are we exempt from that? I don’t know. I’m not sure.

Ron

There is a question raised and it is very aggressive I think way overstepping; should employers have access to employee’s social media?

Monica

Like their passwords?

Ron

Yeah. Like to me, never in a million years would I want that. Now you guys, everybody in the marketing department and sales team have access to our stuff which is fine, but the other way around is mind-numbing to me.

Monica

Like why would the employer need that? I guess if you are posting something they don’t like are they just going to go in and delete it or?

Ron

Yeah, that’s what I don’t know. Isn’t that an amendment? Free speech, hateful speech, whatever it is.

Madison

Yeah freedom of speech.

Monica

Freedom of expression.

Ron

I don’t know that’s crazy to me that that is what people are talking about doing. I guess it’s no different than when you have a run in with the law, they are now asking for the right to take a copy of your phone. That’s a thing where you hand them your phone, they use a device called the stingray and they make an exact copy of your phone. The idea is to justify the texting tickets, or you are in an automobile accident and they want to be able to say hey yep you were texting. Wildly overstepping. There have been instances where you are going through customs and you don’t want to give over your password, so they take your computer. Wildly overstepping. I feel like even as an employee or a consumer, the lines are getting so skewed that nothing is ever going to be the same nor make sense again.

Madison

I think the lines are getting skewed because as we bring Gen Z and future generations into the workforce, they are just use to everything being monitored or tracked with social media and with parenting these days. I know a lot of parents these days have their kids snapchat locations turned on that they have to report back and if they aren’t where they say they are their parents are on them with all their technology.

Monica

My mom does that with my brother.

Madison

Yeah, they just grow up with it. Once they hit the workforce, they are just use to it and everyone just tracks their stuff and that’s just how it is, so I think past generations, even Gen X, some Millennials I would say have an issue with it.

Ron

No way. Yeah huge.

Madison

Definitely I wouldn’t like it but as time goes on that is going to go away.

Ron

If Bill was like yeah hey I’ve got a company provided cellphone I’m going to track you, I would be like I will pay the $100 a month for my own phone thank you very much. Which is wild to me to think that is what we are going to. We won’t do it here, so you’ll never see me or Bill be like oo give me your Snapchat I want to know where you’re at in the building.

Monica

What’s that password?

Madison

Well, like you said we have access to that like certain access like how long people are on certain websites. It’s not like we use that to actively track anything or to make decisions. I can only think of one time we had a conversation with an employee about overuse of yeah certain things and then we looked at it, but yeah that was just on a case by case basis because an employee was making bad decision about social media and we didn’t have to look at the history on their computer to realize it was affecting their performance.

Ron

I worked in my past life in a school district and we had a program that allowed us to see everyone’s screen and I understand the use case of it, but even that is too much. We, as a tech team said we can’t do this, but the teachers loved it because you could see what Johnny was on and be like get back to your PowerPoint. That sort of technology has been around for so long, I mean that was 12 years ago I can’t imagine what it is doing now. It’s just wild, I get it to your guys point that your generation doesn’t care to an extent, but I think if I put my tin foil hat on and have a conspiracy, I think it’s going to reach a boiling point. Some terrible thing is going to happen and it’s going to be like welp we know everything about you, well I don’t know what can happen with your data, but we swing elections with it, so whatever can happen happens. I just think it’s going to reach a tipping point, so I think there needs to be more control over it form users, everybody is going to have to realize I can’t post what I want to post anymore because of the ramifications to it. Which I don’t think there should be, but I feel on some level freedom is going to go away.

Monica

I think on some level that freedom has already gone away a little bit. Definitely more in the future.

Ron

Well it’s this generational difference. I wouldn’t put a lot of things out on Facebook or like pictures of my children because they are my children and they have no say in whether that picture is posted and other kids they just don’t care ya know they will smile real big for the camera, but that’s scary and now that is out there and oh they are related to me.

Madison

I think that is your personality though because for instance your similar age group is posting pictures everyday of their accomplishments as their kids grow up and kids are pretty much just going to have a photo album social media style of every move they have ever made for the past 18 years once they graduate.

Ron

I think that goes back to the social media addiction. I think that goes back to look what I can do or look how good my kid is or look at this. But that is a different conversation and that is here we are all turning to as people. For me, as an employer to say hey you can’t post that, that is incredibly hard to control because that is not the lifestyle people are leading.

Madison

Oh yeah.

Ron

Like my wife is all over that stuff, I just choose not to participate in those activities. I have tons of pictures of my kids. There is just no reason to share them.

Madison

Yeah, now I am friends with everyone who works here who has Facebook and Instagram.

Ron

That’s a bad PR move.

Madison

I know. I just knew we were doing this podcast and I was like hey I am not really super active on Facebook buy I was like why not. I didn’t see anything I would care about, but I don’t think there are a lot of things I would care about. But my example from earlier if I saw you were dragging our name through the mud, I would be like hey what’s going on.

Ron

I men doing generally illegal things should be handled appropriately. But form your standpoint how did it make you feel when people were like no you can’t be my friend.

Madison

I understand. I guess I’m not using it to make work decisions, which maybe that is the question of the podcast should employee social media be monitored to make work decisions? I don’t think so.

Ron

No, and I don’t think that you can. Right, I can’t. Monica you two are employees I can’t be like hey I saw that you love cherry Coke, well I could do that, here’s cherry Coke, ya know that’s creepy in a away but outside of that what else can you control besides letting somebody go or an unwarranted exit.

Madison

You can do that. I mean Michigan is at will and you see someone I don’t know doing something that you don’t agree with you can let them go as long as it is. Not discriminatory. But yeah that’s it.

Ron

I wonder how often that happens.

Madison

I don’t know.

Ron

I don’t think as much as we think.

Madison

It probably depends on the size of the company.

Ron

And the personality of the leaders.

Monica

Yeah, their viewpoints.

Madison

I think if you have a certain type of business owner and they just don’t want any nonsense in their company at all. Just a more close-minded individual maybe that makes them feel a certain way and they don’t want that in their company and that is their right to do so I just don’t think that the employees within that organization would be as happy or maybe they are all happy because that is the kind of culture they all agree with.

Monica

Yeah, I agree with that.

Ron

That would be wild. I don’t anybody would like that hey we had to let go of Madison because she likes cats over dogs and we are a dog company, so she had to go.

Madison

I don’t think it’s that.

Ron

I know it’s more polarizing than cats over dogs, but that’s the best example I could give. Cats over dogs.

Madison

For instance, In Michigan now, marijuana is legal if you have picture s of your employees smoking on their social media page then what do you do?

Ron

It’s no different than drinking.

Madison

Which is why I wouldn’t want to make decisions based on that and up until this point I hadn’t friended people on any social media, out of sight out of mind.

Ron

Alright, I don’t know if that’s the...yeah, it’s legal it’s legal but I don’t know if somebody is breaking up lines on a glass coffee table well then, we need to have a conversation about their safety.

Madison

But yeah then that would be a conversation I would have with the employee and not just say oh yeah, you’re terminated. I would go how can we help you get help.

Ron

You would be pretty hard pressed finding a company now removing people from social media…

Madison

But hiring decisions

Ron

I believe some of those are skewed based on that. Unfortunately, or fortunately I think that has a lot to do with it even you and I see a lot of applicants and even their email addresses are like not offensive, but like why are you applying with that email, like bigpimpdaddy420@aol.com. Like woah okay Todd, maybe we should change that to Todd@gmail or something.

Monica

Right. A little more appropriate.

Ron

It’s just wild, but I think that the world or where we are currently in the state of things does not lean to that it leans to being who you are which is great but some form or fashion there is always some professional side of it, which we don’t really care about. No we do.

Madison

I think people are smarter, people have their stuff on private, or don’t have their profile picture of the keg stand they are doing in college, I mean some do.

Ron

Some do. Some don’t. But I think that anyway so yeah this is just a very interesting topic because I can see it very both ways in some instances and some stuff, I’m just like yeah no don’t do any of this. But anyways, thanks for listening to the Geek Freaks podcast make sure to subscribe and tune in to next week’s episode “Are You A Persuadable?” You’re persuadables. I’m not.

Madison

I like to think I’m not, but I probably am.

Monica

I probably am.

Ron

Thanks ladies.

Madison and Monica

Thank you.